For some twenty years I’ve been beating the drum for libertarianism / voluntarism, hoping to one day see libertarian ideas take over the two parties, or to see the Libertarian Party actually burst onto the stage and become a fixture in American politics, forever breaking the two-party monopoly. I know, I’m a dreamer. And, thanks to this nightmarish election cycle, that dream was starting to look as though it might come true as more and more people are paying attention to the Libertarian Party nominees Gary Johnson and Bill Weld. Indeed, this would be a dream come true of either man was, in fact, a libertarian; they’re not.
Part of that aforementioned attention came from CNN last night, which hosted its second ever Libertarian Town Hall to give American voters a chance to hear something other than the blow and bluster of Trump and Hillary. The two longtime friends and political allies looked and sounded quite a bit more polished than they did at the last such town hall back in late June in which I thought Johnson seemed off. Thankfully, Bill Weld seemed the wise elder statesman by comparison, and overall I thought the two came off well back in June, even if their answers deviated from the Libertarian Party platform quite a bit and libertarian philosophy quite a lot at times. The second town hall last night, this one hosted by Anderson Cooper, featured more of the same in terms of policy and philosophy. Essentially Johnson and Weld could have chosen to be the very best Republicans in the party, representing new and better ideas that will keep the GOP relevant in future years; or they could have chosen to be fairly lukewarm libertarians but with enough name recognition to win the Libertarian Party’s nomination. They chose the latter. I am trying to remember not to choose to allow perfect to be the enemy of good-enough-and-way-better-than-the-other-two-anyway-for-sure.
The town hall opened up with Cooper asking the men some questions about the campaign itself, mentioning that the latest CNN four-way poll (including the Green Party) has Johnson and Weld at the same 9 percent they were at after the last CNN Town Hall in June. Johnson half-joked this interview would “push them past 17,” and expressed confidence the men could reach the 15 percent threshold to be in the presidential debates. Among the more interesting things to come out of this early part of the town hall was that Johnson and Weld plan not to have separate staffs as President and Vice President and called their ticket a real two-for-one.
In keeping with the campaign for his early questions, Cooper asked the men for their takes on where the country is right now, considering Trump’s call to make America great “again.”
“I don’t think life in America has ever been better. We get along better, we communicate better, our kids are smarter than ever,” Johnson said, acknowledging the fact there are issues and unrest, but he insisted that the fact we communicate better as a people than in past generations will allow us to overcome those issues.
Cooper asked about the men’s previous one-word descriptions for the other two candidates; where Johnson described Hillary as “beholden.” He elaborated, saying it’s not a coincidence that Bill Clinton gets a $1 million speaking gig and then the sponsor of it gets something they wanted from the Department of State when Hillary was the Secretary.
“It smacks of pay-to-play,” Johnson said. “It goes beyond ‘smacks of’ play-to-play.”
When pressed about his characterization of Trump as a “huckster,” Weld doubled down, adding that it seems anymore as though Trump has “a screw loose.”
“I say this almost with affection for Donald Trump. Maybe he should consider some other line of work; like, anything other than President of the United States,” Weld said.
Just before the first commercial break, the men highlighted their differences with where the other two candidates staked out their positions in their acceptance speeches at their respective, recent conventions.
“Is there anything Hillary didn’t promise to anyone?” Johnson said.
Weld added that the Tax Policy Center has estimated her proposals would require an additional $1.1 trillion in tax revenue to pay for.
Johnson highlighted the maddeningly contradictory and unhelpful positions Trump takes, mentioning immigration, deportation, attacking the families of terrorists, claiming to be for free trade and then proposing to force Apple to make iPhones in the USA while imposing a massive tariff on Chinese goods.
“And those aren’t libertarian principles?” Cooper asked.
“Not at all.” Johnson answered.
The first audience question came from Kimberly Munley, who was among the first responders to the Fort Hood shooting and was shot three times exchanging gunfire with the suspect. She asked what the men planned to do about the threat of Islamic terrorism “…and keeping our citizens safe and fighting the threat while downsizing our military force numbers?”
Johnson began his reply by pointing out that he and Weld are polling very well among active duty military members right now.
“So, yeah we are at war with terrorism and we will do everything we can to protect the United States from that threat, but we’re not going to support regime change,” Johnson said, adding that oftentimes the results of the US forcing a regime change on a foreign country are worse than whatever the problem was to begin with.
Cooper then asked about terror threats at home, to which Weld replied that creating a 1000 agent FBI task force to focus on the threat, the way the Reagan administration did organized crime, is an effective tool.
Cooper pressed, citing the men’s proposed 20-percent across-the-board cut to government spending and asking how that can be squared against fighting ISIS at home and abroad. Johnson pointed out that the Pentagon itself has stated they could afford to close 20 percent of bases here in the USA, to which Cooper replied “that gets into politics,” as no community likes to see a nearby military base close up. Johnson wisely suggested the antidote to that would be term limits that might prompt representatives to do the right thing instead of what will get them re-elected.
As for fighting ISIS abroad, Cooper reminded the men that military interventions aren’t typically libertarian policy. Weld replied that there are instances where drone strikes are appropriate, citing an example of a hypothetical known ISIS training camp in South Yemen with a complacent government as being a good possible target. Individual terror suspects walking around civilians was far “less appealing.”
Both men agreed they’d have gone after Osama bin Laden and both agree the USA should get out of Afghanistan now, damn the consequences. Those consequences, Johnson and Weld say, will be the same today as they will be 20 years from now; so the only real question is how long we feel like keeping troops there.
My reply, if I was the candidate, or their reply if they’d have hired me after the first town hall like I suggested, to Munley’s question would have been:
“There is plenty of room to cut our military while still fighting the threat of terrorism. As I’m sure you understand, most of the big-ticket items in our arsenal were built to fight a war against the Soviet Bloc that never happened. That’s why we operate a dozen supercarrier battle groups when no other nation has even one – and supercarrier battle groups aren’t all that useful when it comes to fighting a bunch of guys with machineguns bolted to Toyota pickups roaming around in several nations where the governments have been destabilized and are too weak to fight back. That sort of fight calls for a different sort of war fighting. I’m not saying the USA should surrender its technological or logistical lead over the rest of the world’s militaries, not at all – I’m just saying we could afford to pump the brakes some and shorten that lead a bit. At home, we can carry on the fight against ISIS without the sort of intrusive, unconstitutional massive spying the NSA conducts that Edward Snowden uncovered and exposed.”
But, no one asked me.
Next up was Eddie Moye, who lobbed Johnson a softball that the former governor knocked over the left field wall.
“Do you think civilians in the United States should be allowed to purchase or own semi-automatic weapons like AK-47s and AR-15s?”
Johnson pointed out that there are some 30 million AR-15-type rifles already in private hands in the USA. He suggested that if government were to pass a law banning them, maybe half would be turned in and the other would be owned by “…fifteen million law-abiding American citizens who would now become criminals… it’s a misunderstood issue.” Johnson said.
Cooper pressed him, asking him if that meant he wouldn’t make any changes at all to the laws governing the sales of semi-automatic firearms. Johnson made it clear that was what he meant, no changes to current law.
The only suggestion I would have made would have been to point out that banning things doesn’t have much of an effect on the availability of the thing that was banned; the number of people each year who overdose on heroin bears out that statement. Otherwise, that might have been the best exchange of the entire evening.
Chris D’Amato rose next and asked about the prevailing notion that a vote for a third party is a wasted vote, or worse, a vote for one of the major party candidates.
“Why is a vote for your ticket not a wasted vote?” D’Amato asked.
“A wasted vote is voting for somebody you don’t believe in. If we’re going to continue voting for the lesser of two evils, that’s still evil,” Johnson said.
Weld agreed, saying that Johnson is fond of saying he doesn’t mind people wasting their votes.
“If we get into the debates we’re going to win this whole thing. So, if you want to waste your vote on Trump or Clinton, be our guest,” Weld said.
Cooper tried to press the spoiler angle, asking Weld how he’d feel if their ticket drew enough votes away from Hillary to give Trump the White House. Weld dismissed such speculative talk.
Jennifer Peyton rose next and asked the men who their biggest inspiration for their views was and how that person influenced them.
Johnson began by saying he had role-models in the business world, but when he came to politics was quite disappointed. He added that the people who he felt were supposed to be his role models were more interested in getting reelected than doing the right thing. He, in fact, had to go back in time a bit to find a statesman he could point to.
“Thomas Jefferson was someone who was genuinely humble in that office,” Johnson said. “We pledge to bring an end to the imperial presidency. We’re going to be great stewards at that office, but we’re not getting elected king and dictator here.”
Weld agreed that he was going to cite Jefferson as well, specifically for the restraint he showed in office. He pointed out his famous quotes “That government which governs best, governs least,” and “The sum of good government is to restrain men from injuring each other,” as being particularly inspirational. He went on to say that he and Johnson are really a couple of “19th Century Jeffersonian liberals,” adding that that is what he considers his actual political pedigree.
Jaycie Cooper asked what sort of Supreme Court justices Johnson would appoint if elected. Johnson said there wasn’t a “litmus test” but he’d look for a candidate that was focused on the original intent of the constitution.
Weld agreed, and when asked cited Justices W.O. Douglas and Hugo Black as being among his favorites. When asked about current members of the court, Weld declined to pick any out of “that hat.”
I can’t find too much fault here, a strict constitutionalist, or two, joining the bench would be the best thing that could happen to the court right now.
Ellis Jeter asked the next question, which he began by stating that he’d been employed by the private Christian university he was attending when he was anonymously outed as being gay and then fired from his job and evicted from his off-campus apartment.
“What do you both believe the role of government is in regulating religious freedom and civil liberties?” Jeter asked.
Here the wheels fell off some. Johnson said there needed to be a balance between the two and said he supported Utah’s law on the matter.
Cooper asked Weld what it was that he did back in 1991 that made him a favorite among the LGBT community in Massachusetts despite being a Republican. He talked about using his power of executive order to extend visitation and bereavement rights for state employees, something he had power to do as governor via executive order; and something that got him soundly chastised by democrats, he said.
“Don’t you know you’re supposed to be all one thing or the other?” Weld quoted them as asking him back then. “We don’t think you have to be all one thing or all the other. We think we’re right in the middle because we’re a mix of all these views.”
Then, Cooper and Johnson split hairs over the letter of the law, whether the baker has to decorate the cake or not; or merely sell it if it is for sale, etc.
The whole time I’m shouting at the TV.
The correct answer to Ellis’ question was:
“Well, and I know this is going to sound kind of rotten, but hear me out; the key word in the story you told was ‘private.’ When an individual agrees to do business with a private company and they agree to terms and sign a contract, then both parties have an inherent right to enforce their end of said contract. I think we both know that had you chosen to enroll in and attend a private secular school, or a public school, none of the things that happened to you would have.
The matter of religion in all of this is something of a distraction. The important distinction is always whether or not we are talking about a private, non-utility company, or a facility paid for and operated by public money. Private companies always have a right to discriminate, that’s part of the whole ‘private’ thing; whether it’s requiring their customers wear shoes inside the shop, or be heterosexual. As consumers, we have the right to patronize those companies, or not. When government steps in and starts mandating companies behave one way or another, that’s when all sorts of problems arise. And, there’s already far too much of that going on in this country at present anyway, and not just based on religious grounds.“
Or, something like that. It is simply contrary to libertarian philosophy to use government’s monopoly on violence to force a private company to do business with someone they don’t want to do business with, for whatever dumbass reason that may be. It’s not as though bakers or florists provide necessarily vital services.
Coming back from a commercial, Cooper asked if Johnson and Weld were still hoping to possibly draw enough Electoral College votes to force the House of Representatives to pick the president. Both agreed that their path to the White House was to win the election outright, and that begins with getting onto the debate stage. Johnson mentioned a study that predicted the first presidential debate might draw a bigger audience than the Super Bowl, adding there’s no way to win unless they’re in that game.
The next audience question came from Republican Diane Carlson, a busybody who wants the government to do something about the “high potency pot” that’s for sale in Colorado that has little to do with preventing seizures the way high concentrations of non-psychoactive CBD in specific strains of cannabis do. Johnson cited a study that found that indeed CBD reduced seizures, but “whole plant CBD” which contains some THC has been shown to be even more effective at times. He called for the de-scheduling of marijuana as a Class I narcotic, which will allow for more research and development to be conducted upon it. He added that marijuana competes with the products made by big pharma, which kill 100,000 people every year. He clarified that no one is advocating that marijuana be made available for children to use.
I personally wouldn’t have gotten that deep into the weeds arguing specific studies and cases of CBD oil versus other forms of marijuana and their efficacy. Instead I would have pointed out that it is not the government’s job or the taxpayer’s job to save people from themselves, let alone from a plant that can’t really harm them. It would have been nice if Weld stepped in and mentioned that the aforementioned quote from Jefferson said government ought protect against men injuring each other, specifically.
Cooper cited a recent study that found a 44% increase in emergency room visits in Colorado after the legalization of recreational marijuana. Johnson countered that statistic is something of an aberration and most of the “needles are pointing north” as far as legal marijuana in Colorado goes. Carlson attempted to argue that history’s first-ever marijuana deaths have recently happened, but the CNN director mercifully cut to another camera and another question.
Matthew Larsen wanted to know how the men would guarantee all children receive a quality education when they want to eliminate the federal Department of Education.
“The Department of Education, I do believe, needs to be eliminated,” Johnson said. “If we gave education to the states, fifty laboratories of innovation and best practice, and that we’d genuinely have that innovation and best practice that other states could emulate. You know we’d also have failures everyone else would avoid, but one-size-fits-all, it just doesn’t work.”
Weld elaborated that the four-year-degree earned at an ivy-clad brick-and-mortar institution might not be a “dodo bird,” but it’s certainly not for everyone anymore. More focus needed to be placed on technical, vocational education to prepare Americans for the jobs that are actually out there to be had.
At that point, news broke of a knife attack in London, England believed to be a terrorist attack. Cooper used it to segue into more questions about national defense and response to terrorism.
“Look, this stuff is going to happen. Yes, the president and vice president will need to be vigilant to potentially prevent those things from happening, but these things are going to happen,” Johnson said.
Weld suggested that dealing with both lone wolves and ISIS overseas is a matter that needs to be addressed with intelligence assets, namely signals and human intelligence; i.e. eavesdropping on their communications and infiltrating their networks with real, on-the-ground human spies.
Next up from the audience was Robyn Sumners a disillusioned Bernie supporter who wanted to know what, if anything Johnson had in common with Bernie.
While the correct answer should have been “not a damn thing,” Johnson is trying to win an election.
“I believe Bernie and I are similar on about 75 percent of what’s out there,” Johnson said, citing crony capitalism, military non-intervention and marijuana reform as matters about which they agree. “If Bernie supporters are looking for income equality, that government can’t accomplish. But if Bernie supporters are looking for equal opportunity, that is something that can be accomplished… I vetoed a lot of legislation that had nothing to do with equal opportunity; it was about giving a continued upper hand to those who could afford to pay for influence.”
She looked positively triggered throughout Johnson’s reply and likely quickly retreated to a safe space as Cooper went on to ask about the gulf between the money Clinton and Trump are raising versus the Johnson / Weld war chest. As of the last reporting cycle, Cooper said the entire Johnson / Weld campaign reported $1.4 million in cash, a paltry sum to what the other two candidates can raise in a week, let alone the entire campaign to this point.
“To me, that speaks volumes of what we’re able to do with the amount of money we have,” Johnson said. “We’d do the same thing in office, you know, providing the best bang for the buck.”
They both went on to assure Cooper that the next reporting cycle should show their campaign more flush with cash as Weld actually enjoys working the phone for donations, which earned a chuckle from Cooper.
“Well, what else can you sell, if you can’t sell yourself?” Weld pointed out.
Next up was veteran, Muslim and undecided voter Mohammed Shaker, who said he couldn’t vote for Hillary or Trump, but wanted to know why he should vote for the Johnson / Weld ticket.
Here again, the men seemed to try to play up the notion that they’re centrists. Johnson said their views encompass the best of the fiscal responsibility the GOP pays lip service to, but hasn’t done very well with lately, as well as the best of the socially liberal policies the Democrats are supposed to support but haven’t stood up for completely in a long time.
While he wasn’t really incorrect, I always hate comparing libertarian philosophy to the so-called “best” aspects of the Republican and Democrat platforms and for the very reason Johnson cited; those parties only half-ass support those stances in the first place.
Next up was Shetamia Taylor who was wounded in the Dallas shooting ambush. She asked about how the men feel about the Black Lives Matter movement. Johnson played it safe and apologetically said “My head was in the sand,” about discrimination against blacks by law enforcement. Weld gave a better answer, citing the epidemic of black unemployment in the country; but then messed that answer up by suggesting the government do something about it. He insisted the lack of employment opportunities for young black males is a “national emergency.”
“And when there’s a national emergency, the government has to act, libertarian or no libertarian,” Weld said.
Ugh. Act, how? Again, you’re supposed to be libertarians. You’re supposed to understand, inherently, that government doesn’t create jobs other than government jobs that usually shouldn’t exist to begin with. The better answer would have been to suggest that the best way to decrease the number of young black males being shot to death by cops would be to decrease the incidence of their contact with law enforcement. Weld himself pointed out that young black males are four times more likely to be incarcerated if they have some sort of contact with police. Ending the war on drugs and / or categorically rethinking how we approach law enforcement in this country would be the best and most appropriate thing for government to do in response to the issue. Let a new culture take root in those communities, one that’s not based on a pervasive sense of perennial victimhood because government has removed that which perennially victimizes people: itself.
The last question before Time Warner Cable decided my DVR should stop recording the event came from Gary Donoyan, who asked if the men agreed with FBI director James Comey’s decision not to recommend indictment for Hillary Clinton over her mishandling of classified data.
Weld, a former prosecutor agreed with Comey’s decision, asserting that under Justice Department rules, prosecutors aren’t supposed to indict a case they aren’t confident they have sufficient evidence to win a conviction and sustain it upon appeal. Weld said that he didn’t think that threshold had been met in Hillary’s case.
He’s probably not wrong, even if it really wasn’t what most wanted to hear.
In all, I came away from this second Libertarian Town Hall feeling a bit better about the men than I did after the first one. Again, they are not libertarians, plain and simple. They are also not borderline-insane ego-maniacs or unimaginably corrupt despots-in-waiting, which still makes them far better choices for president than either of the other two. Let’s hope they can convince enough partisan American voters of this fact.
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